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    high powered variable scopes

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    donwalk
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    high powered variable scopes

    Post by donwalk on Tue Jun 07, 2011 12:21 pm

    i. like most other airgunners, have a number of 'variable power' rifle scopes. mostly in the 3-9 power range.

    I'm finding, over a period of years, that i am actually getting to where i prefer a FIXED power scope for most practical applications; or, even iron sights. (I now, normally, set the scope to the lowest power and leave it there on most air rifles)

    it's my experience that the variable power scopes, unless you move into the high dollar ones, require more acute adjustments and normally don't give as good of a sight picture/clarity/quality as do the fixed power scopes IN THE SAME PRICE RANGE.

    i DO have high dollar variable scopes i would not part with but they're on my centerfire, intermediate/long range, BA varmint/target rifles and, oddly enough, on some rimfire rifles.

    I'm considering getting a fixed 6, or 10, power for serious airgun hunting WHEN I'm not using iron sights. affraid

    my main train of thought about this is: airgun hunting is like bowhunting...CLOSE IN. the fewer, moving , adjustable parts involved, the better. it's very disconcerting to have to "fool with" making scope adjustments when you're within 35-40 yards of the intended target...at least that's been my experience.

    why not have a fixed power scope that all you need do is adjust the reticle clarity to your visual acuity and go for it? it sure saves on time and movement when stalking... Suspect

    in the final analysis, it's been my experience, that a scope, any scope, simply allows the shooter to SEE the target better, it does NOT insure a hit...it's up to the SHOOTER to "Make the hit".

    now...all that being said...has anyone get any experience with the Leapers fixed 10x50 scope? Rolling Eyes

    pcp4me
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    Re: high powered variable scopes

    Post by pcp4me on Wed Jun 08, 2011 10:56 am

    Well, I use variable scopes on most all my airguns. Reason being at longer ranges I can crank em up to see my quarry. Carry em set on 4X and if shot allows and requires I crank up to what ever power is best. Most scopes are 3 X 9 or 4 X 12 - 16X.

    Don't see ANY reason at all for higher powers than than in the hunting field! Not on a rim fire with it's limited range.
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    Squirrel
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    Re: high powered variable scopes

    Post by Squirrel on Wed Jun 08, 2011 11:20 am

    pcp4me wrote:Well, I use variable scopes on most all my airguns. Reason being at longer ranges I can crank em up to see my quarry. Carry em set on 4X and if shot allows and requires I crank up to what ever power is best. Most scopes are 3 X 9 or 4 X 12 - 16X.

    Don't see ANY reason at all for higher powers than than in the hunting field! Not on a rim fire with it's limited range.
    Yea, but we don't use rimfire anything here. It's all air guns or archery. But point is well made nonetheless.

    Some of these Air Rifles can produce close to rimfire, well, not really, but the concept is the same, I think.

    One thing's for sure, they aren't toys!

    Good case in point though, I walked outside this morning and boom, there they were, diggin up our flowerbeds. I grabed my Infinity and took my shot. But have you ever aimed at a squirrel at better than 30 yards without a scope? Or tried to use 3x power to do the same? Uh, uh, *I* can't do it. I need something that will reach out there and touch something like my Hawke Sidwinder. I got a bead on him and I SWEAR I hit him, but I can't find him now!

    Even turned the dogs lose, they know what they are looking for. He's not on the ground anywhere near here, I can promise you that. The leaves have all come back and they can litterally melt into the trees now. Ugh! Mad


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    Re: high powered variable scopes

    Post by StubExt on Tue Jul 05, 2011 4:43 pm

    I have all Hawke variable high -mag scopes on my PCP airguns and fell in love with the etched glass 1/2 mil dot 20x reticles on the Hawke Sidewinder Tacticals. I have two 6.5-20x42s on my AF guns. They are normally set at 14x and I normally shoot from a rest. My Marauder has a Hawke Varmint SF 6-24 which has a wired 10x 1/2 mil dot reticle which is good but nothing liked the etched glass on the Tacticals. I also own a bunch of high end scopes including a Nightforce NSX which is part of the reasonI like the etched glass floating reticles so much. They are heavy but so is the Nightforce.
    Of course the Hawke Chairgun Pro and Hawke BRC software is great too.


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    Re: high powered variable scopes

    Post by 07condor22 on Sat Jul 09, 2011 10:54 am

    I use a 2-6x20, 3-12x44 and a fixed 10x42. Don't see the need for high power scopes for hunting in my neck of the woods. Higher power mean more shake factor to deal with in off hand shooting. Bench shooting-the higher mag = Tighter groups.

    Weight plays a part also, my EDC is good @ 10x or max 12x and if I can't see the target with my 10x binoculars, it way tooooooooo small for me to shoot.

    I used my SWFA SS10x42 on my condor .22 with good success. Killed Crow @ 100m, measured by parallax ring, several ground hogs and too many starlings to remember. Deadly combo that I'd put up against any vari power scope for off hand hunting.

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    Re: high powered variable scopes

    Post by StubExt on Tue Jul 12, 2011 9:46 pm

    Why you want a Hawke Tactical 20x 1/2 mil dot etched glass reticle on an airgun. An airgun reviewer for AOA named Ted is doing a writeup on the magic of this reticle (only available on the higher mag Hawke Sidewinder Tactical scopes)



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    Re: high powered variable scopes

    Post by 07condor22 on Mon Aug 01, 2011 8:32 am

    StubExt wrote:Why you want a Hawke Tactical 20x 1/2 mil dot etched glass reticle on an airgun. An airgun reviewer for AOA named Ted is doing a writeup on the magic of this reticle (only available on the higher mag Hawke Sidewinder Tactical scopes)


    Can you post a link to this, Sounds like good info?

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    Re: high powered variable scopes

    Post by Abda on Mon Aug 01, 2011 9:11 am

    Yes. . . .

    Please do.

    I'm interested as well.


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    Re: high powered variable scopes

    Post by StubExt on Mon Aug 01, 2011 9:26 am

    You probably want to subscribe to Ted's Holdover Youtube Channel on airguns. He has a load of great videos.

    http://www.youtube.com/user/EdgunUSA


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    Re: high powered variable scopes

    Post by Abda on Mon Aug 01, 2011 10:43 am

    StubExt wrote:You probably want to subscribe to Ted's Holdover Youtube Channel on airguns. He has a load of great videos.

    http://www.youtube.com/user/EdgunUSA

    I checked out the site and I'm happy to have gone there.

    On the first page is the following.



    Now, see, the mildot thing? I'm not really sharp on that and THIS really helps me out on learning!

    Thanks for the great link!

    This is a great tool for learning how to use those weird marks in my scope that aren't cross hairs! scratch


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    Re: high powered variable scopes

    Post by 07condor22 on Mon Aug 01, 2011 10:23 pm

    Ok-wow, I'm soooooooo disappointed, thoughs were gonna be some kind of new magic with the Hawke .5mil Mil-dot reticle. This guy is just doing some run of the mill (pun intended) Mil-dot reticle range finding. With a Second Focal Plane rifle scope. These are excelent scopes scope and I am not putting 'em down, but they're manufactured with Technical flaws? That's how they are designed and that's not a problem for you, however it's anoyance for me!

    These are my thoughts on this subject. First is using .25moa or .25iphy turrets miss matched to mil-rad dot reticles. See if you range find in mils using a mil-dot reticle, you must convert mils read from the reticle (size of target in mils) convert mils to moa's/iphy and then turn the elevation turret appropiat calculated number of moa clicks.

    I prefer .1mil turrets matched to a mil-dot reticle. With this type of scope there is no conversions needed! Mils are Mils, what can I say "simple". After ranging your target and 1 mil elevation is needed, just turn the turret ten .1mil clicks or 1mil. no conversion/math needed, of course you'll need your range card.

    I was surprised that he briefly mentioned that 1mil equals 10 centimeters @ 100 meters, but failed to mention that 1mil equals 5cm @ 50 meters and also 1mil equals 1cm @ 10 meters. This makes it easy to find out what mag your reticle is accurate at? Set a centimeter ruler out to 10meters and zoom in and out till one mil equals one centimeter, or set the ruler out to 20meters and zoom in and out till one mil equals 2 centimeters, it should be the same magnification used for 10meters? You could use a yard stick and inches, but I haven't a clue, or a programmable calculator or the time involved-My method requires no math, just a zero placed behind the centimeter/s to measure the range to target in meters.

    All this makes no sense untill you go to the range and you use a .1mil turret/mil-dot reticle scope. Here's a simulation that uses MOA or Mil scopes with MOA or MIL-DOT reticles using matched or miss matched turrets.

    I forgot the simulation uses your choice FFP(first focal plane) or SFP(Second Focal Plane) rifle scopes. Be aware the range is 500 to 1000 yards or meters. REMEMBER....Select '''METRIC''' on the range card to use my method.

    If you choose to use the MOA simulation select Yards(click yards on range card)and remember dope the wind, it's always blowing in the simulation. Also you'll need a calculator for this simulation.

    http://www.shooterready.com/mildemo.html

    Sam drunken


    Last edited by 07condor22 on Mon Aug 01, 2011 10:29 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Grammar spelling sytax who knows?)
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    Re: high powered variable scopes

    Post by StubExt on Mon Aug 01, 2011 10:40 pm

    Problem solved. You need my Nightforce NSX 8-32 for $1700. Seriously despite some limitations you won't match the Hawke etched glass reticle for the price. It's all about the $$$.


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    Re: high powered variable scopes

    Post by 07condor22 on Mon Aug 01, 2011 10:50 pm

    StubExt wrote:Problem solved. You need my Nightforce NSX 8-32 for $1700. Seriously despite some limitations you won't match the Hawke etched glass reticle for the price. It's all about the $$$.

    Nope don't need a Nightforce, My Bushnell Elite 4200 3-12x44 will do until I upgrade to a Vortex Viper PST 4-16X50. Can't complain about the scopes I have, and hope Hawke will make an FFP soon. Yes I would like your Nightforce, but my budget wouldn't-thanks.

    Sam Very Happy


    Last edited by 07condor22 on Mon Aug 01, 2011 10:52 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Grammar spelling sytax who knows? I do.)
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    Re: high powered variable scopes

    Post by StubExt on Mon Aug 01, 2011 11:10 pm

    A guy at my range I shoot with has a Menace FFP and for hunting I will stick with a SFP but it is novel. I didn't like it getting lost when it is small or covering the target when it got large.


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    Re: high powered variable scopes

    Post by Abda on Mon Aug 01, 2011 11:26 pm

    Two old dogs fighting while the puppy steals the bone. Very Happy


    Good debate . . .




    Keep at it, fellows: I learn just from listening to you both!



    lol!



    I'd be the puppy here!



    Very Happy


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    Re: high powered variable scopes

    Post by StubExt on Mon Aug 01, 2011 11:37 pm

    The truth of the matter is I own too many scopes - maybe two dozen at this point. Most are Leupolds and Nikons but I have a little of everything. I dumped all of the bench rest stuff from the 90s but if I buy anymore my wife will divorce me.


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    Re: high powered variable scopes

    Post by 07condor22 on Tue Aug 02, 2011 12:21 am

    StubExt wrote:A guy at my range I shoot with has a Menace FFP and for hunting I will stick with a SFP but it is novel. I didn't like it getting lost when it is small or covering the target when it got large.

    O boy, I hear this all the time. Actually you're thinking backwards, but that's normal-no disrespect intended here! Let me explain and then do this test and give us your results. I think this would probably work best with a target dot, but a mil-dot SFP will work. Set a bulls eye target, say 40 yards, put a Reticle dot on the bulls eye, then zoom in and out. Watch the SFP reticle's dot cover more or less of the target's bulls eye. Believe it, The SFT reticle dots will cover more or less of the target depending on magnification factor.

    Now for the second part of my test. Acquire an FFP scope and place a mil-dot over the target's bull's eye. Now zoom in and out, You'll notice the FFP's Mil-dot remains the same size regardless magnification factor, The FFP mil-dot never cover more or less of the target at any magnification. The FFP remains linear to target, where the SFP reticle is non-linear-the distance between the mil-dots changes with magnification-making the magnification you zero with the only accurate setting of the scope, say 10x only. Yeah, I know you can factor in 5x and 20x, If you have a calculator and the time needed, usually the target has walked away long before you get a firing solution.

    No problem hunting with an FFP, but that's why I like fixed power scopes, you never forget what magnification you used to zero, same thing for my FFP Cool

    This is a post about FFP Reticles you may find interesting, with a through the FFP scope photos of 1100 yard target with how much target is covered and at different ranges. http://www.primalrights.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1522 disregard the colorful language, it does not apply to this discussion.

    Sam cheers
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    Re: high powered variable scopes

    Post by StubExt on Tue Aug 02, 2011 10:17 am

    I did word that wrong (thats what I get for watching TV as I type). With the FFP if the dot covers the target, there is nothing you can do to fix it since the reticle and target both change but my real nit is with the reticle changing size. That is an annoyance. I heard even the Europeans are moving away from FFP too and going with large SFP reticles like the 20x Hawke on their airguns. A lot of their airgunners are using the newer Hawke Tacticals now on the high end Euro guns (the Brits designed the Hawkes).


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    Re: high powered variable scopes

    Post by 07condor22 on Tue Aug 02, 2011 8:33 pm

    StubExt wrote:I did word that wrong (thats what I get for watching TV as I type). With the FFP if the dot covers the target, there is nothing you can do to fix it since the reticle and target both change but my real nit is with the reticle changing size. That is an annoyance. I heard even the Europeans are moving away from FFP too and going with large SFP reticles like the 20x Hawke on their airguns. A lot of their airgunners are using the newer Hawke Tacticals now on the high end Euro guns (the Brits designed the Hawkes).

    What target are you shooting that the dot will cover, you're talking SFP of course, FFP mildots are not big enough to cover any target unless it's the size of the period at the end of this sentence. I see you still didn't understand what you read. Did you read or look at the post in my link?. The FFP Reticle does not get bigger or Smaller, it remains linear or the same size regardless magnification. I'll repeat-one mill is one mill regardless magnification using FFP. Now zoom in and out on your SFP and watch the distance change between the mil-dots. Tell me again which reticle gets larger and smaller, OK I give up-you simply don't understand or just like to argue.

    BTW Post me a link where in the Euro's are going to SFP, it sure won't be the long distance shooters and by that I'm not talking 100yds/meters.

    My Falcon Menace with the skeleton mil reticle-almost exactly same as yo Hawke 1/2mil reticle was so thin (spider web thin) it sometimes disappeared and was extremely hard to see and this scope has bright glass. What did you think about Menace reticle? I don't have it now! http://www.snipercentral.com/menace45.htm

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    Re: high powered variable scopes

    Post by StubExt on Tue Aug 02, 2011 8:39 pm

    I just like to argue and am teasing you (my wife says it is one of my faults). I acutally liked the Menace and the guy who owns it did too. I do like that the POI can't change with mag changes since the reticle doesn't move. It might be better in low light. Isn't the price about the same as a Hawke Tactical? ($400). update I see it is nearly the same price.... The etched glass reticles are the only way to go.

    Did the guy in this article have a recoil problem?


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    Re: high powered variable scopes

    Post by 07condor22 on Tue Aug 02, 2011 9:08 pm

    Don't think he had a recoil problem?

    I agree, the glass etched reticle is the only way to go, Yeah!

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