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Most users ever online was 66 on Sat May 28, 2011 5:55 pm


    Getting into big bores

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    shamu25
    Entering the Ranges
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    Getting into big bores

    Post by shamu25 on Tue Jan 17, 2012 10:18 pm

    My goal is to shoot a deer in Michigan this coming fall with an air rifle. I spoke with Michigan State law enforcement today and found out that air rifles are legal for deer in our state as long as you are hunting in the rifle zones. I am considering a .45 cal and wondering if I should start out with something like a Sam Yang or attempt to get in line for a custom from somebody like XP, Quackenbush or Haley. It appears that you can spend from $600 to whatever you wish to spend depending upon power and quality of wood. Any direction and advice would be appreciated.
    thanks Ray
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    Squirrel
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    Re: Getting into big bores

    Post by Squirrel on Thu Jan 19, 2012 8:07 pm

    Well, Shmu25, there are clearly some different schools of thought about this subject.For a stark contrast, you can read some of what is already on the net about this starting at this swing of the pendulumThe Shooter's Forum to the other at a Field & Stream forum

    You'll see that there are two completely different schools of thought about using air guns, in general, on large game such as deer.

    I bring this up because, and, yes, I'm probably biased about my perspective in this arena, I'm an Air Gunner first and a Powder Burner (anything that uses gun powder period) second.

    I fully grasp the differences between shooting one or the other and what their limitations are. But, if you take time to read a lot of the posts in those two forums, the Naysayers in the Field & Stream forum are mostly all non Air Gunning experienced people.

    Shooting deer, to me, with an air gun is an advanced Air Gunning concept. It's not small game and this is for sure.

    However, I fully believe in the simple idea of shot placement. It's one of my many laments and rues when I talk to others about trajectories, object of the hunt with an Air Gun Device and the differences of what FPS (Feet Per Second) is at POI (Point of Impact) as opposed to muzzle measurements alone---this all represents FPE (Foot Pounds of Energy) and it too should be measured in POI opposed to muzzle exit alone to consider a good pellet, bullet, FPE, FPS to get the job done right.


    All this being said, and not strictly from bragging rights although I will admit a little bit of that, I have a Career Infinity that is as quiet as a mouse fart, will do 933 FPS consistently with 12 shots (some more, some less, but averaging out to that and better) shooting 32.4 Eun Jin Pellets. That's 62.4 FPE right out of the barrel. By the time it hits something at 35 yards, it's got 46.857 FPE so round that off to just about 47 FPE at POI.

    Now, what is just as important as these numbers is what I'm shooting in the Air Gun. Those Eun Jin Pellets are fairly reasonable in price, do a good job of damage when they hit and still have great penetration. It will slap go through a squirrel from hist tail out his eyeball if you hit him just right. Sorry about the graphics but we ARE talking about hunting here and this is something one has to consider if one is interested in humanly taking deer with an air gun.

    And I would have NO qualms about deer hunting, or hog hunting with that hot .22 Infinity in the slightest as long as good shot placement was practiced. But, you have to consider the distances you are shooting as well.

    But, let's bump up the meter now to a Sam Yang Big Bore .45. Off the shelf, I wouldn't go for a Sam Yang or a Dragon Claw .50 caliber as it is right off out of the box. Uh, uh. I'd buy one and then have it tuned, peaked and tweaked. I have my own gun smith I use for this and I'll put in a good word for you if you so desire. But without this tweak and peak, to me, they just don't have the omph they need to do any reasonable distance shooting.

    I mean, the way I look at it this way, and one of the reasons why, when asked, I had no problems creating an Archery area for this forum, if you are familiar with archery distances in game taking, you can jump to the Air Gun side easily enough. It's about the same but maybe a little more distance with air guns.

    That being said, to get something that will shoot out to 100 yards, accurately, is something special to have in an air gun. It can be done, it is done all the time, but it is not done easily. Forty to 50 yards are good shots with just about any hot air gun. More than this is a specialty and requires some work regardless if it is a hot .22 or a tweaked .45.

    Too, you have to be realistic in not only the above considerations, but little things like, Quackenbush? Check him out like you were actually going to buy one brand new from him. I think you'll find that he isn't even taking new orders because he's so back up at it is right this very minute . . . unless something has changed since the last time I checked.

    So, to get a Quackenbush, you'll probably have to buy used---unless you have the time to wait on him to get you booked.

    That means a lot of time scouring the ads for used air guns and there is only a few really reputable places that you can safely buy that kind of thing used. There are a few sites and, upon request, I can post a few for you.

    Nevertheless, I wouldn't want you to pass over the smaller calibers such as the 9mm (357 or there about) and the Crossman Rouge, hot .25 calibers such as the Daystates, FX models, etc. Airforce makes a nice .25 that will shoot good distances too, but they are single shot and for that alone I stay away from them. I think they'd be, all of them, an all around game gun better fit to coyotes, regular sized deer, rabbit, squirrel, and turkeys to name a few.

    And fair to your pocket as well.

    Just depends on what you want to spend . . .how long you are willing to wait: If you want repeatability with multiple shots, power and/or adjustable power.

    Short answer? Sam Yang will do you fine *if* you have it properly serviced by a qualified gun smith.

    Quackenbush? No, not unless you are a true air gun nut with the experience to appreciate that kind of hardware and the patients to wait until you can lay your hands on one.

    As a matter of fact, I do suggest you start out with something like a good .22 or .25, .25 being preferable *if* you are serious about getting into the Air Gun arena. But, then again, you haven't posted a spiel about your self in the Welcome Mat at the Ranges so I have no idea where you are in the sport, what you know, what to assume you don't, etc.


    But, aye, yes, I'm long winded about all this. That's just me being me. Ask anyone on any forum that knows me or of me.

    So, for your patients in my long read, I'll share some eye candy with you on what a Sam Yang Big Bore can do AFTER it is tweaked:

    Now, notice the weight of the bullet: It's 226 grains. And that, my friend, *is* a bullet, not just a pellet.

    I had a solid brick, not a cylinder block behind it to double the chances of a pass through shoot being deflected. . .

    It took a chunk out of the brick, broke it into and disintegrated the bullet in so many small pieces I couldn't find them all.

    THAT is some power! Now, just think what it would do to a deer . . . But my zero is about 40 yards. I was shooting only half of that. I could go back and find the numbers I recorded on the FPS, FPE, etc, but it's astounding. Before I sent it off to be tunned, these shots would not have penetrated the first board!
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    The bullet and the weight . .
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    Two high density pine 12"x12" x 2 screwed tightly together
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    As you can see by the next few, it's all the way through . .BOTH BOARDS
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    back side of the spoon
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    Saddlemountain
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    Re: Getting into big bores

    Post by Saddlemountain on Sat Jan 21, 2012 1:45 pm

    Out of the box a SY .45 will kill deer. I have done it. I have killed many deer with .45 airguns and would consider that caliber optimal. Bigger cal. and trajectory suffers. It is more like handgun hunting. Keep your shots under 50 yds and place it correctly. The large diameter .45 will pass through a deer leaving a deadly wound channel. The shot needs to hit both lungs or the heart. Airguns have pitiful FPE so forget the "shock" factor and hollowpoints. A good semi-wadcutter will do the trick just like it did for Elmer Keith. I like 155 gr to 225 gr slugs. All of which will pass through unless it hits the spine, which spinal hit means the deer drops instantly. Small groups at 100 yds are achievable, but what percentage shot is 100 yds under field conditions using a foot of holdover? Remember the slug leaves the barrel at 750-850 fps and sound travels at 1100 fps. Keep it close and like Squirrel said shot placement rules.


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    shamu25
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    Thanks guys for the wonderful advise.

    Post by shamu25 on Sat Jan 21, 2012 3:00 pm

    Just what I was looking for. Leaning towards the SY .45. Love the details and opinions from Squirrel and Saddle Mountain. Thanks....very much appreciated. And BTW I did post on the welcome page if you want to know where I've been and where I hope to go. All of my deer have come from a tree stand and a compound so I understand shot placement very well. Just found a used quackenbush for $500 so should jump on it I suppose. I do prefer new in most cases so that's why the SY is appealing. I did notice that on the Adventures in Airguns site you can buy Sam Yangs at a good price and add $80 for a Mike Melick tune. Next thing is to check on his experience with big bores. Most likely he knows what he's doing and it sounds like the way to go rather than send it somewhere else if it can all be done before it gets here, especially at that price.
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    ORairgunner
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    Re: Getting into big bores

    Post by ORairgunner on Sat Jan 21, 2012 4:56 pm

    I think you will find that Adventures in Air Guns doesn't specialize in tuning Korean big bores, I may be wrong but don't think so. Will at Saddlemountain does specialize in these, however is likely to cost more than $80.
    Regards, Tom
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    Squirrel
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    Re: Getting into big bores

    Post by Squirrel on Sat Jan 21, 2012 10:31 pm

    You should check out Saddle Mountain Gunsmith for your interest in tuning that Sam Yang Big Bore.

    And too, I think there is the 909s and the 909. One is the Light Hunter. Well, I *know* there is but you should check them both out for your personal preference. They ARE different in some ways that I, personally find the one I have to my liking opposed to the other.

    And I know you can get used/new from a place that will give you decent support like PA (Pyramydair) There is a link to the site off to your left of this writing pane (big banner, just click on it) You can buy used for like $500 and new for a C note more.

    I highly suggest that you contact Saddle Mountain about it if you are serious and which one would best fit your needs. This particular Air Gun, among others, finds itself as one of his specialties. I don't know of one, not one, unsatisfied customer. And, the work is well worth it as you can see the results above in those pictures.

    I did read your post in the Welcome Mat and pleasure to make your acquaintance! Beforehand I was a little worried about someone thinking that deer hunting was an off the cuff thing common in air gunning and it really isn't. It's for the experienced and there are many states that do open the gates for Air Gun Hunting of Deer and that size game but, and however, there are more than not that have strict limitations on the time of year as well as the caliber. Many that have the requirement, from what I understand, is NO LESS THAN .40 caliber. Some states won't let you hunt with a .22 rim fire for that matter if hunting deer, depending on county of state. So this is something I should have brought up as well.

    I just want to make sure that we represent the sport in the best manner possible while we post here . Air Guns are getting a lot of new found acceptance and I, for one, am for promoting the sport any way I can without leading someone astray with what to expect as common place and what is not and, Air Gun Deer hunting, is something that I think only someone with experience should approach and then, and only then after they are sure of what they are doing, the laws applicable and the best humane morale about it as possible.

    But since you posted your spiel, I'm feeling more comfortable about what I said before and place you in the "got promise" category. cheers Laughing cheers

    You'll get a few welcomes here over time. We move at a easy coffee shop pace here. I'm sure you'll like it! Stick around! And, yes, we ARE free thinking here! I'm SO glad you got that! You should feel right at home at this one when you get a moment to visit (speaking as one with his Medicare card too!)

    And hey, check out the last drawing we have left before we can start a new one! We still need 25 members to pull that one off!


    _________________www.airgunsinc.org______________
    .22 Rainstorm highly modified
    .22 Infinity highly modified
    .25 Infinity converted from .22 Infinity highly modified
    .303 Wolverine Straight off the shelf---needs no modification!
    This is all I need for what I intend to do Folks!

    shamu25
    Entering the Ranges
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    Join date : 2012-01-14

    Re: Getting into big bores

    Post by shamu25 on Sat Jan 21, 2012 11:10 pm

    Thanks for your vote of confidence Squirrel. Just read saddle mountains site with interest....wow did I love the results. Sounds like the 909 single tube is the way to go. Wondering if Pyramid will ship to them directly after purchase to save some $$$ and time. Think I'll check it out unless you may already know the answer.

    shamu25
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    More Fishing

    Post by shamu25 on Sun Jan 22, 2012 9:38 pm

    Pondering the cost of a SY 909s tuned and looking at around $800. Now getting into the cost of a Jack Haley or a Quackenbush (if I can wait that long). Do any of these really compare with each other? Or are they each in a class by themselves?

    shamu25
    Entering the Ranges
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    Thanks Squirrel...I'll keep you posted..

    Post by shamu25 on Sun Jan 22, 2012 10:38 pm

    I may be too picky but just hate it when I don't do things right the first time. Just doing lots of homework and sure appreciate all the thoughts and encouragement
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    Squirrel
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    Re: Getting into big bores

    Post by Squirrel on Sun Jan 22, 2012 11:27 pm




    Try the above link for a read. I think you'll find more there that you'll want to know between the two.

    Give it a shot. Not a bad report. Chunky stalked full of stuff] has some good info but you'll have to work your srolling finger to see it.

    Good luck! Tell us what yout think!

    Air Gun Smith is another to check for a stack up.


    _________________www.airgunsinc.org______________
    .22 Rainstorm highly modified
    .22 Infinity highly modified
    .25 Infinity converted from .22 Infinity highly modified
    .303 Wolverine Straight off the shelf---needs no modification!
    This is all I need for what I intend to do Folks!

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