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    Marauder .22 shot string

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    tkerrigan
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    Marauder .22 shot string

    Post by tkerrigan on Fri Jun 17, 2011 3:26 am

    Haven't had much time to shoot lately, so went out to the shop and ran this string tonight.
    Started at 3400lbs using 18.1 JSBs 5' from chroney
    1-899, 2-886, 3-887, 4-888, 5-895, 6-903, 7-897, 8-907, 9-915, 10-920, 11-927, 12-929, 13-932, 14-927, 15-928, 2800lbs 16-935, 17-937, 18-934, 19-934, 20-933, 21-931, 2650lbs 22-931, 23-928, 24-929, 25-924, 26-921, 2500lbs 27-920, 28-916, 29-914, 30-911, 31-908, 2400lbs 32-904, 33-901, 34-902, 35-894, 2250lbs 36-891, 37-887, 38-882, 39-878, 40-874, 41-870, 42-868, 43-861, 44-855, 45-849, 46-841, 47-836, 48-829, 49-823, 50-816
    Max energy was 35.3, this rifle is Gary Davis tuned with a LW 12MM x 20" barrel and a GD tube extension.


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    Re: Marauder .22 shot string

    Post by Abda on Fri Jun 17, 2011 2:32 pm

    Marauder .22 Shot String Started at 3400lbs using 18.1 JSBs 5' from chroney
    50 shot Av 898.14 FPS

    1-10
    11-20
    21-30
    31-40
    41-50

    1
    899
    927
    931
    908
    870
    907
    2
    886
    929
    2650lbs 931
    2400lbs 904
    868
    903.6
    3
    887
    932
    928
    901
    861
    901.8
    4
    888
    927
    929
    902
    855
    900.2
    5
    895
    928
    924
    894
    849
    898
    6
    903
    2800lbs 935
    921
    2250lbs 891
    841
    898.2
    7
    897
    937
    2500lbs 920
    887
    836
    895.5
    8
    907
    934
    916
    882
    829
    893.6
    9
    915
    934
    914
    878
    823
    892.8
    10
    920
    933
    911
    874
    816
    890.8
    Average: 899.7
    931.6
    922.5
    892.1
    844.8
    898.14

    898.15












    You’ll see where I took the liberty of charting out your numbers. It’s hard for me to look at a string the way it was posted. Others probably won’t have a problem with it, but this made it easier for me to check it out.

    What I did is confirm my suspicions that a lower fill pressure would be friendlier to your M-rod for sustained FPS. Notice the FPS that starts off at one mark but then climbs even though the pressure is lessoning in the air tube when you first start out your string: Can’t miss that. I suspect that if you actually went higher in your fill pressure you'd get valve lock and, probably, start getting really low FPS or a "click" with almost no force in air behind the pellet.

    In my confirmation, I read about the M-rod at Pyramid Air at the below sites. There is a 5 part series of a blog I thought was fairly informative and too, supports my suspicion that this particular Air Rifle benefits from a 2,800 to 3,000 PSI air fill, depending on the nature of each M-rod taken as an individual in consideration to what pellet is used (aren't they all about that way?).

    You can find these links here:


    Click on the picture of the Marauder to go directly to Pyramid Air to see the specs they have on this very nice Air Rifle.


    1. Blog: Benjamin Marauder Part 1

    2. Blog: Benjamin Marauder Part 2

    3. Blog: Benjamin Marauder Part 3

    4. Blog: Benjamin Marauder Part 4

    5. Blog: Benjamin Marauder Part 5

    Benjamin Marauder Manual at Pyramid Air
    This last link has some interesting facts on this air rifle as well.


    Noting that there are a lot of links here to PA listed, this is simply because they have the informaiton. Not becasue I'm promoting them all though I *have* done business with them and always came away statisified if not happy the commerce we exchanged.

    One thing I'd like to see in a shot string with the M-rod is a 10 shot check on fill pressures since it *is* a ten shot magazine.

    Also, I"ve sort of given the PA site a once over but can't find just what pellet and weight that they are using to boast 1,000 FPS in .22 cal. I've noted that a lot of those that hope you will only see the big numbers will use something very light that really isn't a pellet at all to achieve such fast FPS. If I knew what they were using to get that number, it would be easier to place it in my mind what and how the weight factor that you have used could, would compare.


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    jaycee2010
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    Re: Marauder .22 shot string

    Post by jaycee2010 on Fri Jun 17, 2011 4:32 pm

    Abda they are most likely using the aluminum pellets, or non lead pellets. They are much lighter and get faster velocities. I am surprised you guys are filling your Mrods to over 3000psi, i thought 3000psi was the maximum fill pressure for them? I never tempt fate, as you well know I try to be cautious and especially so with a potential explosive device held up to my face. Just imagine multiplying the LDC episode by 10 and think how bad an air tube blowing would be? Anyway I am sure the manufacturers are using the non lead pellets to get their posted velocities, it looks better for them on paper. Some of them now state that the higher velocities are obtained with non lead pellets, they sell them at Pyramid and they are more expensive. Not sure why anyone would want to use them as they do not give the same fpe as the lead pellets. Talk to you later my friend JC
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    Re: Marauder .22 shot string

    Post by Abda on Fri Jun 17, 2011 5:20 pm






    I've personally never filled any of my air rifles beyond recommended pressures.

    As a matter of fact, two of mine, even though stated in the manual 3,000 PSI is a recommendation, they fall short of performance until one reaches 2,900 and the other 2,800. Pretty much equates that the first or first few shots, depending on power level settings, are not worth shooting and must be a "discard" shot to relieve pressure if one is attempting a surgical shot so why go there?

    But I suspect that tkerrigan knows his stuff [and] what he is doing. He's has quite a few air rifles and, I'm quite sure, a lot more experience than I do and has probably tested out his M-rod safely. But you do have a point and I now think that tkerrigan might want to put a disclaimer on his share so that others do know that his test beginnings are, indeed, above the recommended air tube pressure. Nevertheless, that stated, it is also my understanding that the air tubes such as in the M-rod are tested far beyond the recommendations so, at 3,400 PSI, there might not be such a scare in doing so other than, “hey, look, we told you so!” as a finger wag from someone if it does happen to blow up in his hands. Me? I’m a wimp: I get scared just holding one in my hands or close to my face as I feel the darn thing getting warm wating for Murphy and his stead fast laws to let me know that if it CAN happen, it will. affraid

    To me, it is about accuracy: The pellets I use, for each individual Air Gun, seem to like a "window" of air pressure to be launched. For my personal experience, and if I manage to shoot outside of that window for that particular air gun, I can get anything from extreme fliers to shots all over the paper---except what I'm aiming at. Less pressure doesn’t always equal lower and lower shots on the target. They can be all over the place.

    But beyond recommended and higher pressures aren’t just inconsistent at POI. They are also inconsistent with pressure as well: One shot could be as little as 600 PSI if I’ve accidentally gotten to 3,100 PSI during a fill and on the next shot, or maybe the fourth, at 1,150 PSI cracking the sound barrier with the sonic crack that I also try to stay away from because when you do this, as you probably already know, the crack tips the pellet into a tumble and, then, when it re-enters sub sonic speed, you get ANOTHER trajectory issue. Just makes sense to me to stay at the window I’ve found to work and it never has been over 3,000 PSI---not that I don’t think I’ll find an air gun that might actually like that sort but, so far, I haven’t.

    Will Piatt of Saddle Mountain Gun Smith explained to me in words on the phone what I'll probably never be able to convey: The force at which the pellet is pushed through the barrel is very indicative of how much pellet twist will be effected by the riffling. Since weight and speed of this action is demonstrative in POI, it makes sense to keep the same "window" of pressure behind the pellet---what the pressure window the pellet seems to like.

    I'll probably get the finger wag for trying to explain that and failing but I did try. He makes it sound simple and plain common sense but there is a great deal of physics behind it. But, if you can picture it in your head, it makes good sense, to me, at least. Maybe someone else has a better way to put what I’m trying to share what was shared with me.

    Regardless and all things being equal, I'd have to tend to lean toward your philosophy stating "Why tempt fate?" with, at the same time, recognizing tkerrigans' expertise and knowledge being the exception, not the rule.

    It is sort of one of those, "Do as I say, not as I do" things but not quite a "Now kids! Don't try this at home!" labels . . .

    Too, I knew that they used something "not pellet" but couldn't remember what it was. PBA? Maybe? Still, on the other types of Air Guns, the ones that they are pretty keen on letting you know, they tell you the pellet used in achieving what FPS that is advertised. They didn't in this case. I can't figure why . . . .


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    Re: Marauder .22 shot string

    Post by jaycee2010 on Fri Jun 17, 2011 6:52 pm

    Abda I understand what you are saying but my personal opinion on something like this is it does not matter how much another person, may, or may not know, exceeding the recommended pressure can leave you in a very vulnerable position. If and that is a big if, something goes wrong and you end up with huge medical bills you really have no comeback on Crosman, you can hardly say my buddy does it and it worked for him, lol. You get my drift? If you stay within the correct parameters and something goes horribly wrong because of a manufacturing fault in the tube and it fails, at least you should be able to persuade the manufacturer to cover the medical expenses incurred by it. I am not into suing people or firms but in a case like that they should be responsible for paying your medical fees. I got bitten rather badly by a friend of mines dog once when I visited his shop. I had my auto business and he was doing a rag top for an old Mercedes I was restoring, he was out and I approached his dog who was always very friendly with me, and it bit my leg very badly. His brother ran out and immediately said we have insurance, lol I told him I don't care about that but he is buying me a new pair of jeans and paying for my doctors bill. I got stiched up and got a new pair of jeans, cost him a total of about $75, and cost me a week off work, I was purple from my knee to my groin and it looked like I had been shot with a very dark center with a hole stitched up. Needless to say on future visits I refused to get out of the car until he had his dog locked away. I mean what would have happened if a mother and daughter had gone to see him and the dog had attacked the child? He still let the dog run loose after it had bitten me, maybe I should have sued him to get the point home! Anyway I felt right in not doing it at the time, but felt rather amazed after the fact that the dog was still allowed to run lose, after all it is a business open to the public. The point I guess I am trying to make his cover your ass in the event of something bad happening and needing help with paying hospital or medical bills because of it, JC
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    Re: Marauder .22 shot string

    Post by Abda on Fri Jun 17, 2011 7:01 pm

    Point well taken and equally well demonstrated.

    But for matters of conversation, I'll accept his efforts for what they seem to be and not a recomendation.

    Still, there is something to be said about CYA (cover your arse) when it comes to having a back up plan.

    Good points all the way around. I got to learn something from every post made here as well as in the act of posting my own!

    Sidebar: Unless someone thinks this should be addressed by the council? Or the orignal post edited to include a disclaimer? I'm fine with what ever you guys want to do---I'm just along for the ride here.


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    jaycee2010
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    Re: Marauder .22 shot string

    Post by jaycee2010 on Fri Jun 17, 2011 8:52 pm

    Abda I do not think you are responsible for what people post on here or what information people act on. We are all adults on here and if someone does something and someone else decides to do the same thing I do not think you can be held responsible for it. Now here in CA everyone wants the easy buck and suing someone is the easiest way to make it. I do not think you need to edit out anything just use a general disclaimer that the site does not necessarily agree with any technical information posted on the site by members. It is up to individual members to do their own research to check on the validity of any claims or technical information posted.
    Chat with you later my friend JC
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    Re: Marauder .22 shot string

    Post by Abda on Fri Jun 17, 2011 9:43 pm

    Well, whatever you guys think is best.

    Thanks for the input and notable notes.

    But truth be told, I never knew the M-rod was capable of those kinds of figures. I'd really be interested in what a .25 M-rod would do. Hope someone has some time and one of the .25's that they'd be willing to post with such detail as he did.

    He's got the collector in me wanting to go out and find a way to land one now! I've heard SO much about them.

    I don't want to get off topic so I'll rest easy knowing you guys have it under wraps.


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    Re: Marauder .22 shot string

    Post by jaycee2010 on Fri Jun 17, 2011 10:12 pm

    Getting back to air pressure Abda I have found my Pneuma and Mrod have the highest velocities at between 2600 to 2800 psi.I would have said that might be the optimum pressure to get maximum velocities using air rifles except the big bores seem to make a nonsense of that theory. Unless they just fill them to much higher pressures to get the extra one or two shots out of the fill. You have some of the big bores, have you tested them with a fill to see what pressure they shoot best at?
    You know Abda I have found that as the pressure gets much below 2500psi the poi changes, so I may start to do a bit more shooting with the TX200, I know the poi does not change with that and I am getting a lot more accurate with it now. After not using a springer for over a year it has taken me a while to get the correct hold again, I finally got it and now can shoot tight groups all day with it, what a great little gun it is. A bit more powerful then the HW97 and 77 I had, but they were 12fpe UK guns. But those two were one holers at 20 yards and I am not kidding, they were more accurate than most people can shoot.Talk to you soon about the project my friend, all the best, JC
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    Re: Marauder .22 shot string

    Post by Abda on Fri Jun 17, 2011 11:12 pm

    As a matter of fact, I have with my Ultra 9mm and my .45 Sam Yang Big Bore.

    Here's the thing about the 45 . . . And a good example of what I was talking about earlier.

    Now, you would think that the recommended fill pressure of 3,000 PSI would be great on low setting. For those not familiar with this Air Rifle, it has two settings: One cock all the way back is high, and one cock half way back is low.

    But, if you try to shoot it on low setting with 3,000 PSI, it valve locks: It will barely spit the bullet, no matter if it is an EPP/UG 155gr or a 226gr Arch Angel.

    When I first got it back from being tuned, I thought this meant something was wrong with it but I plainly wasn't schooled on this issue at the time. But this is demonstrative of the fact that the back pressure in the tube is just too much for the hammer to clear enough passage of air to do the job. It locks out the valve. I don't know if I'm explaining this correctly but I have it in my mind how it works and the .45 isn't effective on low power until the air fill pressure gets down to and below 2,000 PSI!

    Now, you'd think you'd just get more shots at low power starting off with a full air tube at 3,000 PSI. But you don't. You have to USE those extra pounds of air in high power shots and THEN, and only then, can you use the low power setting for the rest of the air pressure left---that is *if* you intend on accuracy in FPE and POI.

    Too, you can't just use high power all the way and get the same POI results. It's a learning curve of combinations you have to sort of feel your way through.

    But I HAVE tried, and this makes me a fibber where I said I hadn’t done this but I just forgot and it wasn’t intentional but, yea, I did try 3,200 PSI in it and got the same results I spoke of earlier in inconsistent FPS shots---I've got a hand written string of shots off the master chrony I should dig up and post sometime to teach others what not to do such as have the chrony 2.5 feet from the end of the muzzle and start off with low and high and mix 'em up. But I was experimenting so I justify it that way.

    The Ultra is a different story. It's got the power wheel opposed to the two position power cock on the .45. Not good but not as bad with an over fill of pressure. But, too, it was a problematic air gun before it went to the air gun doctor to have Will P. do his magic. And, as a matter of fact, I should be getting that one back into the fold come this Saturday. (Two hips and one hurray!)

    Of course, I'll be doing more experimenting with it but I've learned my lesson about overfilling it. Absolutely no benefit for me that I can say passes muster.

    This might be some of the craziness, and I agree about that, you spoke of big bore air guns and pressures. The make and model is going to be a big factor. Of course, like the Quackenbush custom stuff, you’d be way out of the norm of fill pressures but he does tell you about how the air rifle will perform under what pressures and what is recommended.

    On your TX200, yea, that is what I was saying in another thread about the dependability of my Walther Falcon Hunter: It stays the same. But I do have a question: If I sit and cock, load and shoot just as fast as I can, I find that the nitro piston in my will fatigue a little thus lowering my FPS and slightly altering my POI. But really, that is not a real life situation and nothing but a test at the time. Time given between shots doesn’t find the piston getting tired on me. Have you put yours on the chrony and done this? It’s a true spring right? Much respect for the real spring deal, brother. Bit props: They are hard to shoot.

    But, to tell you the truth, I almost feel like it’s cheating to do a target at 20 yards. It seems SO close to me. Now, with my only nitro piston and spring like air rifle, I can do alright and stay in the kill zone (a one inch square) on the target. I still get some that are way off due to operator error though. But with one of my PCPs, and one of the stronger scopes, I’m literally shooting at the lines or trying to hit the last part of the bull’s eye just so as to know that I actually hit it and didn’t stack one shot on top of the other. Get out to 30 yards and it’s a bit harder.

    Well, I could go on an on and on and on about this. (nah? No kidding? J) I’ll stop here and leave this for another post in another thread on another day.

    But don’t worry about the project. It’s all good. Always has been.

    Well, we’ve about taken over his thread. I hope he doesn’t get perturbed at us!


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    Re: Marauder .22 shot string

    Post by tkerrigan on Sat Jun 18, 2011 12:28 am

    Glad to see all the responses to this post, this Mrod is tuned and has a very heavy hammer spring. It's about 1.5 times harder to cock than my .25 Mrod is. If I started shooting at 2800 psi, it wouldn't get much of a bell curve if any. With these small bore guns, you need the fps to gain for about usually 8 to 10 shots and then return. If you can keep it from going up too high , the POI stays the same height. The 3400psi doesn't mean a lot, the Mrod gauge showed 3000psi, my fill gauge showed 3400. I'm going to be shopping for a high accuracy gauge to check my other gauges, almost all are at least 300psi different. The reservoir is 1/3 again as large as stock, one of the reasons the FPS went up for 19 shots. If the air tube extension wasn't on, it would only have risen for 12 shots. This gun is shooting too fast as it is and I will be slowing it down when I have time to devote to it. I would like to see the high FPS at about 875 or so. Get more shots that way also. I sure like that chart further up, really makes it easy to read. By the way, I would not recommend that these guns be filled this high as a steady diet. But it is a very common practice, especially with the Discovery often filled to 2500 rather than 2000.
    Tom


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    Tonight, Highest FPE W/heavier pellets

    Post by tkerrigan on Sat Jun 18, 2011 12:33 am

    Tonight, I'm going to fill to 2800 psi and try some heavier pellets for high FPE. On my first post, 2800psi was the highest speed. Will report back in an hour or two.
    Tom


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    Re: Marauder .22 shot string

    Post by tkerrigan on Sat Jun 18, 2011 1:50 am

    Well, I'm back. Figured out tonight that the gauge in the Mrod is hosed. I'll put another one in. I filled to 2800psi Mrod, which was 3100 on the fill gauge. I shot 25.4gr JSB Jumbo Monsters. It appears that the heavier pellets have a lower psi sweet spot than the 18.1's. Remember the gauge is toast.
    1-773.5, 2-778.6, 3-779.2, 4-780.8, 5-791.7, 6-794.9, 7-800.8, 8-803.9, 9-804.4, 10-811.8, 11-811.2, 2700psi, 12-817, 13-822.9,
    14-822, 2600psi, 15-826.3, 16-825.9, 17-822.9, 2600psi, 18-825.3, 19-823, 20-820. I had figured on using 5 pellets to hit the high spot, it took 15. 25.4gr at 825.3 FPS equals 38.52FPEI thought I had some heavier pellets, but will have to order. Tom


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    Re: Marauder .22 shot string

    Post by Squirrel on Sat Jun 18, 2011 1:17 pm

    Sweet!

    Bummers on the bad gauge. Happens though. Where will you get your parts? Nice to know these things.

    Explains a lot too!

    FYI for a side bar:You can create a table in MS Word and paste it to the post you are creating *OR* you can do the same in Excel. Of course, just the text and table will show up . . . but don't toggle out of HTML when you paste it or it won't show up right. Gets confusing but with some effort you'll figure it out.

    Too, there are always the table and cells tags in BB code but that's not for the faint hearted of posters. I can shoot you a copy of my signature and you could figure it out---I'm sure you could pick out my text from the code and substitute your own and work the code from that point. Not really hard---just meticulous.
    As a matter of fact, here it is:
    Code:
    [table][tr] [td]1. Walther Falcon Hunter .22 -No Tune needed off the shelf
    2. Evanix Rainstorm .22 Tuned: [url=http://saddlemountaingunsmith.com]Saddle Mountain Gun Smith[/url]
    3. Career 707 Infinity .22 Tuned: [url=http://saddlemountaingunsmith.com]Saddle Mountain Gun Smith[/url]
    4. RWS Career 707 Carbine .22
    [/td] [td]5. RWS Career 707 Carbine .25
    6. Sumatra 2500 500cc .25 -No Tune needed off the shelf.
    7. Career 707 Ultra 9mm Tuned: [url=http://saddlemountaingunsmith.com]Saddle Mountain Gun Smith[/url]
    8. Sam Yang .45 Big Bore Tuned: [url=http://saddlemountaingunsmith.com]Saddle Mountain Gun Smith[/url][/td][/tr][/table]
    This is just a working example so that you can get a feel for how it works if you don't know already. I suggest a little boning up on the code at just about any Google Search for BB Code and what it is that you want to accomplish. Can make you look real good even, if like me, you don't know squat! LOL!

    By the way, ignor the code tags: They are just there to make the complete code show up so that you can see it as code and not what my signature actually looks like. Pretty cool stuff if you ask me.


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    Chart

    Post by ORairgunner on Sat Jun 18, 2011 3:17 pm

    I downloaded an excel spreadsheet with all the pellet and shot string full info goodies on it, but could not get the pellet weight to change. I'll try again later, using code to change colors really messes up the post. I think that's where the big blank spot in the middle of the message came from.
    Tom
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    Re: Marauder .22 shot string

    Post by Abda on Mon Jun 20, 2011 12:01 am


    Enlarge the above image to see exactly where your sweet spot is with that ammo you last reported under what FPS.

    Series 1 is number of shots at what FPS.
    Series 2 is what you left me with in HPA at what shot.

    Give me more numbers and I could have given you a better image with regard to comparing your air tube pressures with your shots as you went. But I think this is enough to prove both our points, right?

    What is so wild is that even though you are starting off with a higher value HPA, your FPS actually climbs the less HPA you have in your air tube----*until* you hit that sweet spot.

    It really doesn't help to go more than that once you find it. For me, I want consistency. The more even and more consistent my fill pressure is against output, the more accurate I'll be, or, rather, the pellet will fly. I don't like compensating my cross hairs or trying to remember the shot count to a point of accuracy---especially when I may grab one of 8 different air guns using a variation of shot in each one. I just couldn't do it otherwise. Too, with such a variation, I personally think it would be hard to follow the ladder of trajectory accuracy after that many shots to get there. It would be just too hard for yours truly to do these days. I’m confounded by the simple things in life now let alone complicating them! LOL!

    Just IMHO, you should pick a pellet and footnote it mentally or otherwise and be able to reference the fill pressure you need for it if you can't use something like a power wheel easily accessed like on some of the Korean Air Guns---this last unavailable, you are stuck with what the Air Gun Valve grants you in pressure so you'll have to stick with that weight and know when to stop filling the air tube.

    Ah, but, again, just my humble opinion.

    Enjoy!


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    Re: Marauder .22 shot string

    Post by Abda on Mon Jun 20, 2011 12:39 am

    ORairgunner wrote:I downloaded an excel spreadsheet with all the pellet and shot string full info goodies on it, but could not get the pellet weight to change. I'll try again later, using code to change colors really messes up the post. I think that's where the big blank spot in the middle of the message came from.
    Tom

    Sounds like you have a locked sheet. Share? Send it to me via email and I can take a look at it and maybe help you out some.

    Tell me more and I can help more.

    Good luck with it.


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    Re: Marauder .22 shot string

    Post by ORairgunner on Mon Jun 20, 2011 3:46 am

    I think I just figured it out, I was expecting the spread sheet to calculate FPE, the pellet weight is just there for general information. I can change it, but it doesn't enter the calculations. The speeds can be changed and does change the chart. Neat for making charts though. I see that I can copy the chart and suppose that it could be pasted in a post. I'll send you a copy, you may want to use it. I think this chart could be changed to calculate FPE etc also by adding to the spread sheet.
    Tom


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    6. Webley Spectre Mark2 .22 (FX Cyclone)
    7. Disco Carbine .22 24" Barrel,
    8. 1322 Carbine 14" Barrel,
    9. Marauder .22 Pistol SN #10
    10. Marauder .22 Ext Tube GD Tune LW Barrel,
    11. 1322 Carbine 24" Barrel,
    12. Browning 800 Mag .22 Pistol
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    14. Corsair .308 X 2,
    15 1377 Refurb for Project
    16. Silver Streak .20
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    Re: Marauder .22 shot string

    Post by Squirrel on Mon Jun 20, 2011 4:14 am

    ORairgunner wrote:I think I just figured it out, I was expecting the spread sheet to calculate FPE, the pellet weight is just there for general information. I can change it, but it doesn't enter the calculations. The speeds can be changed and does change the chart. Neat for making charts though. I see that I can copy the chart and suppose that it could be pasted in a post. I'll send you a copy, you may want to use it. I think this chart could be changed to calculate FPE etc also by adding to the spread sheet.
    Tom
    Yea, that's just a spreed sheet turned into a chart.



    Check this out: Above, where I posted my graph? This is what I used to make it.



    Shot FPS to HPA Ratio

    Shots

    FPS

    HPA PSI

    Shot 1

    77.35

    82.8

    Shot 2

    77.86

    82.8

    Shot 3

    77.92

    82.8

    Shot 4

    78.08

    82.8

    Shot 5

    79.17

    82.8

    Shot 6

    79.49

    82.8

    Shot 7

    80.08

    82.8

    Shot 8

    80.39

    82.8

    Shot 9

    80.44

    82.8

    Shot 10

    81.18

    82.8

    Shot 11

    81.12

    82.7

    Shot 12

    81.7

    82.7

    Shot 13

    82.29

    82.7

    Shot 14

    82.2

    82.6

    Shot 15

    82.63

    82.6

    Shot 16

    82.59

    82.6

    Shot 17

    82.29

    82.6

    Shot 18

    82.53

    82.6

    Shot 19

    82.3

    82.6

    Shot 20

    82

    82.6

    Averages

    80.6805

    82.715


    But you have to have a little math savvy about you to do it. For instance, I simply moved the decimal places on the FPS listings and then added the same ratio to your HPA numbers to get it in the same chart to read it more accurately. So, no, your HPA numbers didn't START with an 8 anything but left to a figure like 2800 psi, the chart, with both on there, would have been very long and almost impossible to compare at a glance so I made them all in the same range by also moving a decimal along with adding to what it would take to get within the same range. Look at the figures hard a little bit and you'll see what I did. The ratio is still the same just lower on the chart this way. If I had more than 3 sets of numbers to pull from getting the HPA you were using in PSI, it would have looked better and matched up, mostly in reverse of use of air and the wild thing about it, when I made the graph.



    Tell you what, check out this link: http://spreadsheets.about.com/od/excelcharts/ss/90209linegraph_3.htm

    It's mostly for 2003 Excel but it covers the changes in 2007 and the version I use. It's useful for seeing the numbers visually but you have to add in some data to it if you want to compare it without doing a graph overlay. (Translated means more work)

    Whatadaya tink, Spanky? (ah, yea, dating myself with a Little Rascals reference but I think they were SO cute sometimes!)


    Last edited by Squirrel on Mon Jun 20, 2011 11:46 am; edited 1 time in total


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    Re: Marauder .22 shot string

    Post by Squirrel on Mon Jun 20, 2011 4:20 am

    Oh, and by the by, you'll need a trajectory program to be able to calulate the pellet x's FPS x's distance and even windage can be added in.

    I use Hawke Chair Gun Pro. Got it for free---I think because I have a Hawke Sidwinder, not for sure on that one. I can shoot you a link if you want then you could check it out regardless. You want I should?

    And you do get the plus and minus signs in the upper right hand corner now, don't you?

    ??

    -Will


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    Re: Marauder .22 shot string

    Post by Squirrel on Mon Jun 20, 2011 4:24 am

    One last thing, Tom:

    If you want to post it, just move the chart to another sheet. Then copy that and then open up Paint. Paste it in the empty field. Add to or take from more photo editing like as text box, etc, then, save it as a Jpeg or similar file. You can upload that file to a post then or put it some place like photobucket for a remote site reference. Easy to do.

    Just time consuming.

    Ug, Will hates time consuming!

    -Will


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    Re: Marauder .22 shot string

    Post by Squirrel on Mon Jun 20, 2011 4:31 am

    You should check out the herd in the Staff's Lounge.

    I finally got them all in one place! LOL Smile


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    Chair gun

    Post by ORairgunner on Mon Jun 20, 2011 1:24 pm

    I have chairgun, so far, I just use it to figure drop at 100Yds to get on target with a scope. Remember what with buying guns, ordering scopes, and finishing up the concrete gun vault, I haven't had time to use any of my toys fully. Just bits and pieces.
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    Re: Marauder .22 shot string

    Post by Abda on Mon Jun 20, 2011 1:31 pm

    The is a little bit more inclusive than the first post I made about graphing out those last shot strings.

    I put in a power curve that clearly shows that the power actual climbs the less HPA you use until you get to the sweet spot. The last numbers are #21 and those are the averages as indicated from the data sheet I included.

    I'll email you this sheet I used. It will give you a head start on making your own and configuring it.

    You know, it occurred to me that I could make a note book for each of my Air Rifles and include such graphs and information. It would give me something to do anyway. No life here as exampled in my Excel bumbling attempts.

    I used Paint in XP Pro to add in the little extras. And presto, whalla! Here you have it: Something that looks good but easy to do and definitely does not make me an expert at this sort of thing.

    But, it *is* handy though.

    *Side Bar* Yea, I know about the time thing. Yov'e got a lot going on. It took me, litrally, hours to figure out these little tricks and gizzmos. But it will be fun, when I have the time, and the drive to do so, to apply them in a more ordered and professional fashion to a notebook for each of my Air Rifles.

    Great stuff though. Still waiting on those pics for the vault! You promissed! Smile


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    Re: Marauder .22 shot string

    Post by Squirrel on Wed Jun 22, 2011 10:42 am

    Shot FPS to HPA Ratio
    Shots
    FPS
    HPA PSI
    Shot 1
    77.35
    82.8
    Shot 2
    77.86
    82.8
    Shot 3
    77.92
    82.8
    Shot 4
    78.08
    82.8
    Shot 5
    79.17
    82.8
    Shot 6
    79.49
    82.8
    Shot 7
    80.08
    82.8
    Shot 8
    80.39
    82.8
    Shot 9
    80.44
    82.8
    Shot 10
    81.18
    82.8
    Shot 11
    81.12
    82.7
    Shot 12
    81.7
    82.7
    Shot 13
    82.29
    82.7
    Shot 14
    82.2
    82.6
    Shot 15
    82.63
    82.6
    Shot 16
    82.59
    82.6
    Shot 17
    82.29
    82.6
    Shot 18
    82.53
    82.6
    Shot 19
    82.3
    82.6
    Shot 20
    82
    82.6
    Averages
    80.6805
    82.715

    25.4gr JSB Jumbo Monsters in a M-Rod .22 Cal

    ONE HALF INCH KILL ZONE
    773.5 - 800.8 FPS good for 35 yards
    800.8 - 817.0 FPS good for 36 yards
    817.0 - 823.0 FPS good for 38 yards
    __________________________________
    ONE INCH KILL ZONE
    77.50 - 800.80 FPS good for 44 yards POI FPE = 23.480 (24 FPE Beginning)
    800.8 - 817.00 FPS good for 45 yards POI FPE = 25.466 (25 FPE Beginning)
    823.0 - 826.30 FPS good for 46 yards POI FPE = 25.983 (26 FPE ending….)
    However, if you could get 900 FPS out of a Beeman Crow Magnum .22 Cal, 18.21 Grains, Hollowpoint, (200 count for $8.95 @ PA and, of course, every third tin free) you’d get greater accuracy, IMHO, and your FPE would be 32.76 (33 FPE) at muzzle and POI FPE would be 23.297 (23 FPE) at 45 yards! Is that that big of a difference in numbers when considering your pellet will do more damage by using the crow mag?

    I’ve used these, still do, and, as a matter of fact, they are some of the only pellets that will comply with my standards in shooting. Regardless of my personal preferences, these pellets will expand on impact to a much larger caliber causing much more trauma than a pointed or rounded nose pellet that is more than likely going to loose energy to target impact as it cuts through the target. Measuring how deep a pellet penetrates a piece of lumber you may be impressed how deep it goes. Me, on the other hand, I want to see depth plus expansion and a bigger hole in the wood. This means that the pellet may not penetrate as deeply as a pellet that isn’t a hollowpoint.

    I’d still shoot the same game with this round as I would with bigger/heavier rounds. Face it, with a .22 cal you aren’t going to shoot a hog unless you are within 20 or so yards and have a dead on head shot. If you do and don’t take these precautions, I suggest you have a tree to climb nearby because that hog is coming after your butt for stepping on his nerves and nothing more. But you CAN take a head shot at coyote, raccoon, and, with smaller game such as rabbit and squirrel, your kill zone extends to the body cavity of vital organs. And don’t say you can’t because I took out a raccoon with a Evanix Rainstorm .22 cal and have the pictures to prove it.

    You have to understand: I’m a hunter. I do like the math, the calculations of trajectory, plinking and so forth all associated with Air Gunning. But, if you will notice, all my air rifles are tough stuff and truly, as much as my limited budget can allow, meant for the real deal of hunting with an air gun. I can only do backyard safaris but, I do dream of the day I can get someone to go with me to help me on a real hunt in consideration of my disabilities.

    So, paper cuts on a paper target don’t mean squat to me. Well, you all know what I mean, right?

    I’ll bet that you could fire up your M-Rod, put about 2,750 to high 2,600 PSI’s in it and use something like those crow mags and get a pleasant surprise.

    Make this your mission, Mr. Phelps (I did love to watch Mission Impossible!) should you decide to accept it, get those pellets, take some shots, be sure to measure more of the air tube pressure than you did last time, and not only post the results of the chrony, but your accuracy too. I’ll make a chart when and if you do just for fun. This stuff trips my trigger when nothing else does but an invitation to go to bed early with the wife. Cool

    All my figures were obtained using Chair Gun Pro from Hawke. If anybody wants this program, I can provide you a link but I’m not sure if you have to register the fact that you bought a Hawke Scope or not . . . worth an effort if you think you are interested in it.

    And, lastly, I did notice your remark about what the FPE was with certain pellet weights and FPS. However, the muzzle FPS is not near as important as the POI FPE. The latter is what you are more concerned. This is what your knock down power, that one stop shot, is derived from.

    This message will self destruct should you decide not to take me up on the challenge I have put before you, Tom. Do you have what it takes? Can you handle the truth? (Jack Nicholson, boy, I’ve seen way too much TV! Loved that movie with him and Tom Cruise Very Happy)


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    Re: Marauder .22 shot string

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