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Most users ever online was 66 on Sat May 28, 2011 5:55 pm


    new 25 cal airforce setup

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    grizzlyadams
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    new 25 cal airforce setup

    Post by grizzlyadams on Sat Feb 25, 2012 5:33 pm

    ordered a 27 inch barrel blank from green mountain. going to order the extreme valve from r&l and a brass 115gram brass hammer and breech from parisD, plus some assorted cast bullets from 60-85 grains and see what she'll do for me before the woodchucks start coming out Twisted Evil as long as i can find a pill it likes, it should be a real killer! just got to get the barrel to my smith and put her all together, hoping for a slam dunk on the first try here Very Happy wish me luck!

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    Re: new 25 cal airforce setup

    Post by roachcreek on Sun Feb 26, 2012 12:47 am



    I shot this group at 150 yards in a stiff wind yesterday. I am only using a 2x7 Burris Fullfiled because I want to use this rifle for a calling gun. With a 70 yard zero the trajectory is within 1.8 inches to 80 yards and with the scope on 2 power and using the lower duplex on the balistic reticle I can hit this target at 150 yards. The rifle is much shorter than a Condor with a 24 inch barrel.

    With the 24 inch barrel I got 130 FPE, it equals the 32 acp perosnal defence rounds sold these days, but with a better BC and and better sectional density, plus it is a swc and they always kill well.

    The bullets are cast from a LBT mold of 20-1, they drop at 57 grains and .256 and I size to .255.



    I am using a Talon frame, Paris tank adapter, RL Valve stem, AF top hat set at .12, Airarcher valve spring retainer, spring and derlin valve seat, a .80 wire hammer spring cut to 3.5 inches and opend up on the end for the PW which is set at 10 to give me 7 shots at 105 to 120 FPE. The spring powers a cut down to 95 gram Paris D barrel rider hammer.

    My barrel is a 17 inch LW Airforce barrel that I gave a tapered lead to accept the bullets, they would not chamber without doing this, and the choke cut off and recrowned.

    I have spent a considerable amount of time and money getting this project going and fond the single best mod I could perform for accuracy and consistancy was to cut that damn choke off, so your on the right track with a nochoked barrel Grizzly.

    It is the rifle on top.



    Hope to get out this late summer and try it on coyotes in my old haunts where I hunted commercally in the 80's.



    Let me know if I can help in any way.

    Regards,



    Roachcreek

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    Re: new 25 cal airforce setup

    Post by roachcreek on Sun Feb 26, 2012 1:39 am

    Grizzly,

    Some things you will learn along the way, sorry if this is redundant, meaning you already know all this..

    Bullet diameter is all important. That means the diameter of your bullet compared to the miked slug of your new barrel.

    On a smokeless firearm you can get by being a little under or a little over depending on your chambers lead or under sized on your cylinder lead, being over on the cylinder lead is disasterous to accuracy in a revolver.

    If a thousands too small the bullet being lead and sort of soft, depending on the alloy, it will bump up or increase in dameter on the forces of ignition. A black powder firearm will get by with a smaller diameter bullet yet in relation to the barrel diameter, because there is a greater force upon igniton.

    Air guns will not bump up the bullet to fit the bore, there is just not enough force. That is why air gun projectiles are of the diablo design with a hollow base to expand to the bore. Springers will give you more force than what a PCP will.

    So what this means, is that you need to get bullets that are EXACTLY the same diameter of the slug you slugged your bore for optimum accuracy.

    Notice I keep repeating slugging your bore, this is of paramount importance, slugging your bore. If your bullet is too big, you will loose power swaging it to bore diameter, if it even chambers at all. If too small you will not have good accuracy, it will rattle down the barrel.

    So before you waste money buying different bullets, make sure of your bore diameter. How I do it is to bump a bullet up with a small brass hammer so that it will acutally shave a little lead when I drive the lubed and now expanded bullet into the breech end with that same brass hammer gently. Then I push it down the bore, if it is a choked bore, I do not push it all the way to the choke, I push it back out the breedh. But choked bores don't work well in air gun application.

    You want that bullet to completely fill the lands and grooves of your barrel. Make sure you have a good quality caliper to measure the slug, not all calipers are created equally and it is important you get a good mesurement. I measure it lengthwise and at its largest diameter which is the measurement you want.

    When ordering a custom mold, and I have found no over the counter molds that will give me the correct bullet diameter or sizers for that matter, I include a slug from my bore for the mold maker to measure with his caliper to make sure were on the same page.

    Bullets: if your not going to cast your own from a custom mold and size it in a custom sizer, find a bullet maker who will size to your exact bore diameter. I have cast for 40 years, so I don't know a lot of bullet makers, but one I do know and I tested some of his bullets in my Ranger 45, is the maker of Jerry's Surefire slugs, he makes the 6,7 and 9 ring cylinder designed slugs for the Condors and can be found on the TAG forum.

    Veral Smith of LBT made my 25 caliber mold, and I custom order my sizers from Lee Precision, I don't care for their reloading tools or bullet molds, but they do make a sizer that imparts less trauma on the slug during sizing and will make you a custom sizer.

    Always go with a SWC design, HP are unrelaible at the velocites we shoot and are not needed and usually not helpful for accuracy because they are so damn difficult to cast correctly, and I have tried over the years, and bought a few.

    Never, ever use a round nose or pointed cast bullet for game.

    Hope this helps.

    Regards,

    Roachcreek
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    grizzlyadams
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    thanks for all your help rc

    Post by grizzlyadams on Sun Feb 26, 2012 9:52 am

    most helpful indeed! i also hunt with and shoot bpcr and revolvers, and i prefer a swc in the latter besause as you stated, they are better performers on game.. i dont cast my own yet but am planning to for this rig.i saw those slugs on barnes website and am going to give them a try in my talonP as that gun has not so smart power and i might as well use it! Smile

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    Re: new 25 cal airforce setup

    Post by longhunter on Wed Mar 21, 2012 11:46 am

    RC, where can i get a custom swaging die ? what i have in mind is a hollow base, minie-type bullet with a 3mm. metplate. forgot to mention it will be in .25 cal. . any ideas?

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    Re: new 25 cal airforce setup

    Post by roachcreek on Wed Mar 21, 2012 12:17 pm

    That would be Dave Corbin in White City Oregon.

    He has been making swaging dies forever, top quality stuff with a phenomenal after sales relationship.

    I have owned his stuff for making 22 caliber CF bullets from empty 22 LR hulls and the same in 6 MM,I used them to win the Oregon 1981 Practical Rifle Championship and for commercial hunting in the eraly 80's. I also had a 45 die for making slugs for paper patch bullets, all used a Rockchucker press.

    Google him and he should come up.

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    Re: new 25 cal airforce setup

    Post by longhunter on Fri Mar 23, 2012 10:12 am

    thanks RC, will do.
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    Re: new 25 cal airforce setup

    Post by grizzlyadams on Thu Mar 29, 2012 9:00 am

    the barrel i ordered will probably be closer to .257 as its a rifle blank with 1-10 twist. if it doesn't work well i'll try something else as they are less than 100 bucks.i'm looking to shoot heavier bullets if possible

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    Re: new 25 cal airforce setup

    Post by longhunter on Sat Apr 07, 2012 9:33 am

    griz, where are you getting your barrel blank from, if you don't mind me asking? i was looking at a hart barrel, but, they're 350.00. it might speed things up if i don't have to lay out so much coin to get things rolling.
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    Re: new 25 cal airforce setup

    Post by grizzlyadams on Sun Apr 08, 2012 9:04 am

    green mountain barrel site. 27 inch barrel blanks are less than 100 bucks. the same company that make barrels for crosman for the 25 m-rod i believe.i've used several of their barrels in the past for black powder and firearms,not air yet, but was always pleased. they are more than adequate for my needs. i don't shoot in anything more than friendly competitions
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    Re: new 25 cal airforce setup

    Post by Abda on Sun Apr 08, 2012 11:01 am

    What would be the twist on that? I think twist, especially on custom made projectiles, are way over looked since the wasp tail isn't there to encourage stability . . .

    Never thought about a hardened barrel for AGs though. Wonder if there is a minute size difference in ID?


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    Re: new 25 cal airforce setup

    Post by longhunter on Sun Apr 08, 2012 12:50 pm

    i was looking at a twist of 1-14. toofast and you can actually over stabilize the projectile, especially at subsonic velocities.

    as far as internal size differences between standard ag barrels and hardened steel barrels, i don't know if there would be much of a difference in size, so to speak, but i'm guessing that the internal tolerences would be much tighter.
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    Re: new 25 cal airforce setup

    Post by Abda on Sun Apr 08, 2012 3:47 pm

    I'm thinking that with a wasp tail then too fast a twist would deffinitely have room for error---too much difference between front and rear axis in weight---but with an even rounded projectile, more like the cast bullets, it should be, on papper, better?

    But too, that would lock your AG into a restricted diet.

    Dunno on this one. I'll let you experts figure this one out.


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    Re: new 25 cal airforce setup

    Post by grizzlyadams on Mon Apr 09, 2012 8:46 am

    i have a second blank 25 inches long with a 1-14 twist meant for 25/20 or 25/35 bpc. going to have them both turned as soon as i get a chance and see which does better.i'm pretty sure the 1-14 will do better, but wanted to try the fast twist also with some heavy projectiles and see how fast i can get them going with the new valve and hammer

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    Re: new 25 cal airforce setup

    Post by longhunter on Mon Apr 09, 2012 9:11 am

    Abda wrote:I'm thinking that with a wasp tail then too fast a twist would deffinitely have room for error---too much difference between front and rear axis in weight---but with an even rounded projectile, more like the cast bullets, it should be, on papper, better?

    But too, that would lock your AG into a restricted diet.

    Dunno on this one. I'll let you experts figure this one out.

    the biggest factor in limiting what type of projectile you can accurately shoot, is the choke. bullets will not shoot accurately out of a choked barrel, ( just ask RC ). pellets, on the other hand, may or may not.

    as far as locking into a restricted diet, don't we all do that anyway? you always shoot the type / brand of pellet that consistently performs the best in each particular gun in your stable. if you think of it in that respect, the argument becomes moot at that point.

    personally, i would rather have a gun that is consistently accurate with one type of projectile, made by me, under my quality control, rather than be at the mercy of a manufacturer / distributor, not knowing from one order to the next whether or not i was going to get the same thing that i ordered the last time, whether it be different a different batch or price or not at all. don't you think?
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    Re: new 25 cal airforce setup

    Post by grizzlyadams on Mon Apr 09, 2012 9:50 am

    i agree, thats why after the build i'm going to sample some different cast bullets before i settle on a mold or molds. i have a friend that casts 25s and many other calibers and has several molds and sizers. thats why i got a firearm barrel.figured if i'm gonna shoot bullets, may as well start with a bullet barrel Smile
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    Re: new 25 cal airforce setup

    Post by Abda on Mon Apr 09, 2012 12:14 pm

    longhunter wrote:
    Abda wrote:I'm thinking that with a wasp tail then too fast a twist would deffinitely have room for error---too much difference between front and rear axis in weight---but with an even rounded projectile, more like the cast bullets, it should be, on papper, better?

    But too, that would lock your AG into a restricted diet.

    Dunno on this one. I'll let you experts figure this one out.

    the biggest factor in limiting what type of projectile you can accurately shoot, is the choke. bullets will not shoot accurately out of a choked barrel, ( just ask RC ). pellets, on the other hand, may or may not.

    as far as locking into a restricted diet, don't we all do that anyway? you always shoot the type / brand of pellet that consistently performs the best in each particular gun in your stable. if you think of it in that respect, the argument becomes moot at that point.

    personally, i would rather have a gun that is consistently accurate with one type of projectile, made by me, under my quality control, rather than be at the mercy of a manufacturer / distributor, not knowing from one order to the next whether or not i was going to get the same thing that i ordered the last time, whether it be different a different batch or price or not at all. don't you think?
    Agreed:

    Nevertheless, I'm okay with, say my Evanix RS and the pellets I have found to feed it. However, one day, I'd be able to, and have in the past, turn up the tension and fire of EJ 28.5's with little or no scope re zero noting that this is a completely different creature from the diet it now accepts . . .

    Then there are the Koreans . . .I still have two and both of which have the dial in power wheel---this allows for more on the fly feed considerations.

    However, with a bbl, choked or not, this becomes the last link in the chain as we consider the weakest link the strongest point of any working machine, right? No more adjustments, on the fly or not at that stage of the game. The equipment is truly locked in at that point and would be, to me, something truly dedicated *if* fitted for a single projectile and trajectory type.

    But that's JMHO. Not an expert by any means and only know what I've found to work for me and my family on the wall. They all eat well currently and I'm not looking to change the diet---right now. But one never knows!

    This is one reason I decided to go ahead with the RSP without regard to the advent of the RS 11. The Crosman .25 cal mag used in the conversion will accept shot as long as EJ 43.2 grain. Still don't know how far we can push the valving system on it, but we intend to try.

    Besides, I did order the .25 RS 11---but no telling how long it will take to get to *my* front door---I don't hold the perks that a lot of the big names do so I have to wait in line just like everyone else.

    Regardless, I'm still intrigued as to what W and me (mostly W) can make this into and how it all will work after it is bull pupped, the bbl length figured, the shroud in place, etc, etc. I've got a good feeling about it and want very much to put them, my to-be RSP to the new RS 11.

    But it will all take time, eh? Something that I can dream about and sit on the edge of my seat in anticipation for a while looking forward to even more excitement when and if, right?

    . . . I'm just taking baby steps and hanging in there squeezing all the fun out of all of it I can . . .
    . . . . . . . . .


    Good luck on your BBL, Griz, keep us in the loop. Inquiring minds want to know!


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    Re: new 25 cal airforce setup

    Post by longhunter on Wed Aug 15, 2012 8:32 am

    just a tease. i got a line on a 4500 psi. tank that is the SAME SIZE as the AF tank. same threads and all! now, you don't have to hang that cf hemhorroid off the back of your gun, if you don't want to. the guy also makes a reg to go with it. 4500 psi. in and up to 3000 psi. out. i'll post more when i get more. by the by, this is from a reputable supplier, and tuner.
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    Re: new 25 cal airforce setup

    Post by grizzlyadams on Wed Aug 15, 2012 1:28 pm

    do tell....pleeease Very Happy
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    Re: new 25 cal airforce setup

    Post by grizzlyadams on Wed Aug 15, 2012 1:32 pm

    she ain't compact but she's quiet! gotta run some shot strings. all i got are eun jins right now. gotta get some slugs for her. i set her up for slugs and all i got are pellets!figures!lol

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    Re: new 25 cal airforce setup

    Post by longhunter on Wed Aug 15, 2012 9:00 pm

    grizzlyadams wrote:do tell....pleeease Very Happy

    right now, the tanks are out being tested. don't worry, i'll let you know as soon as i hear something.

    the regs are adjustable by the user. they're going to have two gauges, one for the tank, and one for the reg, as well as a 1/4 inch quick connect. as i understand it, the regs are like Tony's angled adapters. should be a pretty sweet setup.

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    Re: new 25 cal airforce setup

    Post by longhunter on Sun Aug 26, 2012 9:50 am

    ok folks, the tanks and regs i was telling you about are available from Mike Kobel at citrus airguns. he is the ONLY source for the 4500psi. tanks. they are custom made for him exclusively. his email is romancetech@yahoo.com . he quoted me a price of around 425.00 for a tank and reg. i think he said tanks alone are going to be 205.00 .

    if you want to see what he does, check out " worlds fastest p-rod " on youtube.

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    Re: new 25 cal airforce setup

    Post by longhunter on Mon Aug 27, 2012 8:13 am

    forgot, you can also email him at " mike@citrusairguns.com "
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    Re: new 25 cal airforce setup

    Post by grizzlyadams on Sat Sep 01, 2012 9:47 am

    guess i'm gonna have to start saving my pennies. i need two of them

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    Re: new 25 cal airforce setup

    Post by longhunter on Sun Sep 02, 2012 7:00 pm

    TWO???!!! greedy bastard Laughing Razz

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