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    Lower Cylinder Heat Scorch

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    Lower Cylinder Heat Scorch

    Post by Abda on Thu Aug 18, 2011 7:13 am

    Okay, so I'm working on my Shoebox. I like working on things that I can actually handle and since I've had it a while I've grown really comfortable with doing PM and upkeep on it. At first, I was a little intimidated like anyone would be at anything new. But I've even grown complacent with it and that's not good.

    Realizing this, and since I just rebuilt the lower cylinder (sounds very techy, eh? Putting it like that? But it's only replacing the O rings!)I decided to go ahead and rebuild (replace O rings!) on the upper cylinder as well. Then while I had everything out, I decided I'd go over the whole thing with a fine tooth comb and do it all up in proper fashion.

    The chain was loose. Yup, lots of slack. Not good. Had to tighten that up. But to do it I needed to remove a thing or two---just because I like to have room to work.

    So, I've tightened the chain and I catch a glance the lower cylinder . . . "lets wipe that grease away, shall we?"

    See the lower cylinder? See that smudge? I tried to wipe it off. Uh, uh. No can do. Hmm, that's not a grease smudge! Oh MY GAWD! It's a burn mark from the metal over heating! I must have done something wrong in "rebuilding" the lower cylinder!

    WELL . . . Lets make sure . . . I tried scraping it off with my thumb nail. I tried some solvent on it. I tried this, that and the other. Still, it wouldn't come off. It WAS IN THE METAL and it WAS a burn mark from the cylinder over heating!

    OH MY GAWD!

    I'm screwed!

    Is it supposed to do this? What did I do wrong!

    Okay, in a panic now I take pictures of it---but lets get a bunch of them so that I can make sure I get some clear and clean shots to show someone at the Shoebox Support Forum when I post them to ask about this and if there is something I did wrong, something that failed, etc. I had this all lined out in my mind as I was taking the pictures.

    See below the first clear shot I got of it.




    Well, I took a few shots and found that if I used the flash the spot would go away. (first missed clue) So I did my best with the Anti shake Resolution setting on the camera (ASR).

    So now, I'm bothered. But there is nothing I can do until I get with someone about this. So, cleaning up my mess and doing some other things, like removing the power switch to replace the "L" bracket I'd bent, I continued on.

    But, wait a minute!

    The Power Switch now removed, the "burn mark" was gone! What the Sam Hill?

    See below but when you do, realize that this is one picture of a set I took at the same time. It all makes sense to me now but not at THAT particular time.



    So, now, the power switch OUT OF THE LIGHT, more so literally than figuratively, I took a closer look at the missing burn mark. I could see some small marks of wear where I'd tried to remove it by cleaning it and scraping it with my thumb nail.

    And, when I did, I got my finger in the light CAUSING THE SAME BURN MARK TO SHOW UP BUT IN A DIFFERENT SHAPE!

    Ugh!

    Arg!

    DAG NAB IT!

    *&$N IT!

    It was just a shadow of the power switch!

    Now tell me, without knowing what this is, would anyone else assume that there was something wrong other than a shadow? I'm extremely color blind and I can't help but to think I'd be the only one to do this near heart attack to myself over something like a shadow!

    Maybe I just notice the small things or maybe I'm too careful but for once, I'm glad I was wrong!


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    Re: Lower Cylinder Heat Scorch

    Post by Abda on Fri Aug 19, 2011 8:59 pm

    Update:



    I don't feel so bad about it now. I got my wife to look at it just the way I found it, saw it and jumped to the worst conclusion and she thought it was burned too. Then I moved the power switch (that was disconnected from the L bracket at the time) without her noticing and she was just as puzzled as I was the first time around.



    She tried to get out of it by saying, "oh, that was just the power of suggestion working" but I know differently. I didn't lead her on and she thought it was the same thing without a moment's hesitation.



    Whew! I thought I was really bad about that!



    It's all funny to us now but it surely gave me a heart start the first time around!

    Anybody else have a horror story with a happy ending like that? I can't help but laugh at myself for these sort of happenstances.


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    Re: Lower Cylinder Heat Scorch

    Post by StubExt on Sun Oct 02, 2011 2:44 pm

    I am finally getting some funds to pick up an Air Ranger .25 60 fpe and a Shoebox when my small airplane sale is completed. I am glad I took this long since you guys have all of the bugs and issues worked out. tongue I will be seeking some setup advice once I finally get one ordered. I am also waiting for the .25 caliber ARs to go on sale again as well. It sounds as if the order backlog is kind of caught up at this point.


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    Re: Lower Cylinder Heat Scorch

    Post by Abda on Sun Oct 02, 2011 7:45 pm

    StubExt wrote:I am finally getting some funds to pick up an Air Ranger .25 60 FPE and a Shoebox when my small airplane sale is completed. I am glad I took this long since you guys have all of the bugs and issues worked out. tongue I will be seeking some setup advice once I finally get one ordered. I am also waiting for the .25 caliber ARs to go on sale again as well. It sounds as if the order backlog is kind of caught up at this point.
    Ask away, Stub! I've done just about everything you can do to a Shoebox. I've rebuilt the air block as well! Not many can say that, I think?

    Anyway, we'll keep the light on for ya! Just ask away--unless I'm gone down south for a short absence and I will be soon, just not sure when.

    I've actually got two of them. I'm going to run them together but I've got to build a "Y" since I can't find anything from anyone that I want. But my original keeps chugging away like a Timex Watch. The other is still in the box waiting on me to come and get it.

    Got to say, little envious here (insert green with envy HERE) about the Air Ranger. That's a for sure on my get list. My day will come though. In the mean time, share with us what you use in it, how it works, you know, the details and the true skinny about it all.

    One thing to leave you with about the Shoebox is I can tell you is NOT to let it intimidate you. It's pretty simple and once you make friends with it you'll try to figure out why you hadn't gotten one before then!


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    Re: Lower Cylinder Heat Scorch

    Post by roachcreek on Wed Oct 12, 2011 6:25 pm

    I used to have to rebuild my Shoebox about every ten days, with two to 6 hours of use per day.



    Then I put a fan blowing directly on the cylinders and it was months before it needed rebuilt again.



    Heat is your enemy/



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    Re: Lower Cylinder Heat Scorch

    Post by StubExt on Wed Oct 12, 2011 8:50 pm

    My Shoebox arrives on Friday. Still need to pick up a booster compressor. My big one is oil based.

    I also need a moisture filter. Is the Harbor Freight one adequate?


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    Re: Lower Cylinder Heat Scorch

    Post by roachcreek on Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:25 pm

    Stub,



    I used to recommend the little pancake they sell, for about 6 months, then it quit on me, I did not buy the extended warrantee, so I was out of luck.



    I replaced it with the 6 gallon one that is 1.5 HP I believe. I run mine thru two filters piggyback, and that draws it down a bit. So I set mine at 100 PSI and it works fine, but again it is the next bigger oiless one.



    Those filters can be disassembled and the media put in a pan in the oven at 180 degrees for about 10 minutes and it will dry the beads out, then you just reassemble them. I bought 8 of them a few months ago when they were on sale and I rotate them weekly.



    When you get the Shoebox, take the cover off, store it somewhere, and put a fan on those cylinders and another fan running othe motor.



    I grease it with a 20 guage cleaning mop, bent ito a question mark to go around the cylinder rods, I grease it with the white lithium grease every two hours instead of three hours. It prolongs the time between rebuilds. Expect to rebuild within two weeks for the first rebuild while the rods are polishing themselves as they wear out the frist set of o rings.



    Rebuilding is a first time intimadating task, after your done with the first rebuild you will be amased at how easy it was.



    I run mine to fill three 44 cuft tanks plumbed in a cascaded system, and to fill a Pygmy bottle, and I shoot a lot, so it runs a lot.







    You will probably find as I have, it is the best air gun purchase you have made.
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    Re: Lower Cylinder Heat Scorch

    Post by Abda on Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:45 pm

    Check out the link. Pretty good deal and the compressor I use as well. I paid a little more for it locally at Lowes.

    http://www.google.com/products/catalog?hl=en&q=porter+cable+air+compressor&gs_upl=3797l11500l0l14500l13l10l0l0l0l0l1032l4486l2-1.3.4.1.0.1l10l0&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.,cf.osb&biw=1280&bih=441&wrapid=tlif131846586181210&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=shop&cid=12873613991762942564&sa=X&ei=XTGWTtzbBM6ctwfy5uiLBw&ved=0CIYBEPICMAE#

    It seems to have enough of a reservoir to keep it from having to kick on all the time and what little time it does run is very short. It will do 150 psi. Not bad and multiple air hose connections too.

    Another thing I like about it is that when you go to drain it a slight tilt is all that is needed to get the condensed water out of the vent tube at the bottom.

    And, too, the foot print is great. It's not oblong, can fit behind a coffee table (where I have mine) etc.

    Harbor Freight is a good place and I'm not knocking them but a lot of stuff they sell is, IMHO, maybe not the best quality for heavy use or professional use. However, I have a shop full of tools bought there so understand it is the type of equipment I would suspect not the company if that makes sense to you---in regard to the compressor. Regardless, I tried to buy the long yellow filter I saw at Tom Kaye's Shoebox Forum at they don't selll them any more.

    Personally, I'd like some savvy advice on what to use (filter) and where to get it as well.

    Roach, really like your set up . . . good work!


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    Re: Lower Cylinder Heat Scorch

    Post by Abda on Thu Oct 13, 2011 10:25 am

    roachcreek wrote:Stub,



    I used to recommend the little pancake they sell, for about 6 months, then it quit on me, I did not buy the extended warranty, so I was out of luck.



    I replaced it with the 6 gallon one that is 1.5 HP I believe. I run mine thru two filters piggyback, and that draws it down a bit. So I set mine at 100 PSI and it works fine, but again it is the next bigger oiless one.



    Those filters can be disassembled and the media put in a pan in the oven at 180 degrees for about 10 minutes and it will dry the beads out, then you just reassemble them. I bought 8 of them a few months ago when they were on sale and I rotate them weekly.



    When you get the Shoebox, take the cover off, store it somewhere, and put a fan on those cylinders and another fan running another motor.



    I grease it with a 20 gage cleaning mop, bent into a question mark to go around the cylinder rods, I grease it with the white lithium grease every two hours instead of three hours. It prolongs the time between rebuilds. Expect to rebuild within two weeks for the first rebuild while the rods are polishing themselves as they wear out the first set of o rings.



    Rebuilding is a first time intimidating task, after your done with the first rebuild you will be amazed at how easy it was.



    I run mine to fill three 44 cuft tanks plumbed in a cascaded system, and to fill a Pygmy bottle, and I shoot a lot, so it runs a lot.







    You will probably find as I have, it is the best air gun purchase you have made.
    Like the set up.

    Where did you get the "T" or the stuff to make it? I need that badly. I've got two Shoebox Compressors but I'm having an issue finding a "T" or "Y" to run both compressors to one Air Hog Tank. I did check with Joe about it but he hasn't gotten back with me so I'm moving on with it.

    Anything you can suggest would be greatly appreciated.


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    Re: Lower Cylinder Heat Scorch

    Post by roachcreek on Thu Oct 13, 2011 12:14 pm

    Do I have the mother of all HPA fittings site for you!

    www.northshorecompressor.com



    I have probably put thru a dozen orders for fitting from them. They also will ship at a lower rate than what is listed on their website, they usually ship flat rate for me on the small orders.



    When you access the site, look under "fittings", there are about 5 pages worth, and they will have what you need.



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    Re: Lower Cylinder Heat Scorch

    Post by Abda on Thu Oct 13, 2011 12:40 pm

    roachcreek wrote:Do I have the mother of all HPA fittings site for you!

    www.northshorecompressor.com



    I have probably put thru a dozen orders for fitting from them. They also will ship at a lower rate than what is listed on their website, they usually ship flat rate for me on the small orders.



    When you access the site, look under "fittings", there are about 5 pages worth, and they will have what you need.



    Roachcreek
    THANKS! I'll get right on it today and see what I can find out! This has been the only hold up for me geting both of these going together while the other Shoebox, still new and in the box, keeps calling "I'm lonely out here! Come and get me! Put me to work!"

    LOL

    Thanks Roach!


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    Re: Lower Cylinder Heat Scorch

    Post by roachcreek on Thu Oct 13, 2011 10:21 pm

    Stub,



    Yes there are a lot of filipia/american familes that plan to or do that now.



    The Philippines is great if you have money, you can buy anything, but if your poor there is no safety net. There is a very small middle class and the rest is either rich or very poor.



    I dearly love my family there, and miss seeing the children grow up, but in a few months of being there, I get tired of stepping over gray water and the overwhelming poverty and not being able to do anything about it, fatigues my soul.



    Americans as a general rule have no idea what desperate poverty is.



    Having said that money brings it's problems also, you have to becareful due to the fact that the Philippines has two shooting wars going on at once and has a very high kidnapping rate not to mention their own home grown version of Al queada, the US has been fighting them for about 115 years now, starting after the Spanish american war, the natives who used to bind them selves and drug themselves then attack our troops were in fact radical moslems.



    I am hyper alert while there, and my families home is armed and a swat team member lives accrossed the street. I make note of any van that passes me twice and when approached by groups of men on the street at night I have my hand on something very sharp. I have no illusions of fighting off a AK carrying kidnapper, but he will leave a blood trail from my body.

    But I have gone by land from the southern most part of the country by car and by boat to almost the northern tip, at night thru" indian country", Mindanao, and walked the streets of Manila at 3 am in the morning where the cab drivers keep their doors locked, with no problem, but then at 6'1 and at 62 I can still do pushups by the hundreds, and carry myself well, that may have an affect, who knows, my wife says I was just lucky. I have also traveled alone for weeks on end thru Thailand and Cambodia visiting ancient Buddist Watts.

    I found Cambodia to be a dangerous place, and with the exception of being poisened by a Thai girlfriend and being on deaths door for months, I have had few problems.

    So yeah I love the wild side of life and I do love asia.

    Having said all that, 99.95 of filipino's love americans and are still think McCarthur walked on water, and it is a splendid place to visit, not to mention the women making the very best wives in the world IMO.



    The Philippines is also air gun friendly in that you can buy one and walk out with it even as a non filipino. Armscorp, who makes 1911's and great M16's, which cost about 1200. american and have no distiction between semi and full auto as far as the registration fee, also makes a nice PCP and some springers. Airguns are made in garages and small shops on a custon basis also.



    BTW sorry about stealing your thread.

    Regards,



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    Re: Lower Cylinder Heat Scorch

    Post by Abda on Thu Oct 13, 2011 10:30 pm

    Never mind about Joe, Stub . . . I just got an email from him. Hopefully I'll be plopping down the plastic before the night is over.

    Playing email tag, I reckon.

    But thanks anyway. I know you'd of done me the favor but not necessary now.

    Still want to know about your filters and I'll get a definite answer on the operating temps for you as soon as I can unless someone here beats me too it.

    And Roach, you ain't stole nutten. It's all good conversation. It didn't start off as a serious thread anyway. Drinking Beer

    But what filters do you use on your Shoebox stuff? Pics please?


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    Re: Lower Cylinder Heat Scorch

    Post by StubExt on Thu Oct 13, 2011 10:50 pm

    The link they sent on the HF filters.

    http://www.harborfreight.com/inline-desiccant-dryerfilter-68215.html?hftref=cj

    RC - amazing story....


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    Re: Lower Cylinder Heat Scorch

    Post by roachcreek on Thu Oct 13, 2011 11:18 pm



    These are the Harbor Freight filters I use and as you can see, I piggyback them.

    I have 7 or 8 of them and dry the media in the oven, reassemble them and keep them in a sealed ziplock until ready to use.

    I replace them weekly, but this is the Pacific NW, people fall off their bikes and drown here.



    Regards,



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    Re: Lower Cylinder Heat Scorch

    Post by Abda on Thu Oct 13, 2011 11:27 pm

    Thanks Roach. Nice!

    I know exatly what to ask for when I go there now.

    Fall off their bikes . . . lol!

    Stub, I dunno about that one: It says good for 90 psi? The PC will do 150 but you CAN turn it back to 100 (Shoebox recommended but I don't)

    *Was/is* an amazing story, Roach. For a guy like me it all seems so . . exotic?


    Well, I'm trading emails with Joe. Must run. Thanks for all guys!


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    Re: Lower Cylinder Heat Scorch

    Post by StubExt on Thu Oct 13, 2011 11:42 pm

    That is what you see on RC's machine.


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    Re: Lower Cylinder Heat Scorch

    Post by Abda on Fri Oct 14, 2011 12:01 am

    StubExt wrote:That is what you see on RC's machine.

    Hmm, dun know then. They have some other more expensive stuff at HF. I may take a look at that as well now that I've got the fittings lined out.

    Or cut mine down to 100 PSI the way I'm supposed to then.

    Printing off the picture and taking it down there would have given me a surprise then, eh? I'd seen them at HF but didn't read the box when I was there last.

    Thanks for the catch! Smile

    I just sealed the deal with Joe so in a few days I should be all set to go with a dual set of Shoeboxes. But I DO want to have the right moister collectors as well.

    I guess I'm a little concerned now that I've seen the vapor mist out of the end of my Raintorm. I'll post some numbers on it later (I finally got to it). But I doin't think those numbers should give me the vapor I'm getting so my next thought is to much water in the air that I'm feeding it.

    THANK YOU SO MUCH! But for sure, thank you, Stub! THANK YOU SO MUCH!


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    Re: Lower Cylinder Heat Scorch

    Post by roachcreek on Fri Oct 14, 2011 1:00 am

    That is the pancake that quit on me, I really like the 6 gal one, it comes on a lot less for a much shorter time. So far I have had no problem with turning the PSI down to 100 PSI.



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    Re: Lower Cylinder Heat Scorch

    Post by StubExt on Fri Oct 14, 2011 2:31 pm

    Yea I am going to get the 6 gal. So Abda - your running a higher than recommended booster pump pressure?


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    Re: Lower Cylinder Heat Scorch

    Post by Squirrel on Sun Oct 16, 2011 8:57 pm

    StubExt wrote:Yea I am going to get the 6 gal. So Abda - your running a higher than recommended booster pump pressure?
    In my user name stub but was popping in and wanted to answer this one before I shut down tonight . . . and, too, because I split the topic earlier it helps to clarify even though I did answer in the other thread. . .

    Yea, I guess I have been. At the time I didn't really think about it. I haven't had any issues with the system on account of it. Too, on of the filters I was using (not a condensation filter just a water catcher with relief valve) had a 5% loss rate so I think I wasn't' actually doing the full 150 from the PC anyway.

    Live and learn and this is a good catch from you. I need to be aware of this kind of thing and it got by me. Thanks for the catch. It will probably help my equipment out over the long run too!


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    StubExt
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    Re: Lower Cylinder Heat Scorch

    Post by StubExt on Sun Oct 23, 2011 12:28 am

    I was thinking that typically the hose, filters, etc are only rated at 100 psi. How often do you guys empty the water drain from the PC?


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    roachcreek
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    Re: Lower Cylinder Heat Scorch

    Post by roachcreek on Sun Oct 23, 2011 3:20 pm

    Maybe once a month. We have very high humidity here and I get very little water from the compressor tank when I do empty it.



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    Abda
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    Re: Lower Cylinder Heat Scorch

    Post by Abda on Sat Oct 29, 2011 11:01 pm

    Well, I keep mine inside so the humidity is *somewhat* controlled. But even then I still get water built up in the bottom of the Porter Cable.

    You know, maybe it's just me or the fact that when I was a heavy equipment operator they drilled it in to me that I should check all the fluids in a piece of equipment before using each day, even if you knew, or thought you knew, that the bugger needed no checking, I check mine every time I know I'm going to be running it for any length of time or if I know that I've not checked it of late.

    Especially if I can't remember if I checked it of late. Memory will fail you.

    But, you know, you don't check your oil in your car EVERY TIME you use it, right? A lot of people think like that. I'm sorry, but I just can't think that way about that kind of stuff.

    When I did construction and the use of this same type of compressor was common place like for nail guns and the like, we emptied it everyday as we packed up the tools to head home from the site. If you do this, you won't have to worry about it anyway.

    It's really important to empty the compressor of air and drain it after each use as well because that water you are trying to get rid of so it doesn't go into your air guns? It's damaging the inside of your air compressor as well. It'll rust it out and shorten the life of the equipment.

    So, my advice to you is to empty it every time you finish with it and do a quick check before hand. Better safe that sorry, right?

    So, don't leave the PC pressurized and, as you dump the air, dump the bottom of the air tank as well.



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    Re: Lower Cylinder Heat Scorch

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